do they really say that they have NO AN IOTA of information on the 4 planes that crashed on 911???
NTSB Elaborates On Absent Records Pertaining To Positively Identified 9/11 Aircraft Wreckage, Including 2 Flight Data Recorders
Within a August 11, 2008 Freedom of Information Act appeal reply from the National Transportation Safety Board, the NTSB affirms that it possesses no records pertaining to positively identified wreckage recovered from the 4 aircraft involved in the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001. Such wreckage includes the Flight Data Recorders attributed by the NTSB in Factual Reports to American Airlines flight 77 and United Airlines flight 93.
Dear Mr. Monaghan:
I write in response to your letter, which the Safety Board received on July 31, 2008, in which you appealed the response of the National Transportation Safety Board's FOIA Officer to your FOIA request for "copies of records revealing the process by which wreckage recovered from the aircraft used during the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, was positively identified as belonging to: American Airlines [flights 11 and 77], and United Airlines [flights 175 and 93]." Your request opined that the Safety Board must have utilized unique serial numbers of components from each of the four aircraft in order to identify the wreckage from each aircraft. The Safety Board's FOIA Officer responded to your original request on July 18, 2008, in which the FOIA Officer indicated that the Board did not have any records within the scope of your request.
Your appeal asserts that the Safety Board's response was erroneous. In particular, your appeal states that Safety Board records mention the four aircraft "within numerous public NTSB records," and that Safety Board employees participated in the identification, collection, and examination of the wreckage of the aircraft, such as the flight data recorders and cockpit voice recorders. In addition, you assert that, "physical examination of the wreckage in question alone, cannot provide for a satisfactory basis for the affirmative determination made by the NTSB regarding the identities of the wreckage described herein," and that you believe that identification of the wreckage must have been based on "some tangible record provided to the NTSB, as allowed for by the NTSB's Quality of Information Disseminated by the National Transportation Safety Board: Guidelines for Ensuring and Maximizing the Quality of Information." With regard to your last assertion, you quote from the Safety Board's statement concerning information quality, which is available on the Board's website.
I have carefully reviewed your appeal of the Safety Board's response to your FOIA request, and determined that the Board must deny your appeal. The Safety Board performed an adequate, reasonable search for any records within the scope of your request, in accordance with the provisions of the FOIA, and did not locate any records within the scope of your request. Oglesby v. Dep't of the Army, 920 F.2d 57, 68 (D.C. Cir. 1990); see also Campbell v. Dep't of Justice, 164 F.3d 20, 27 (D.c. Cir. 1998). The Safety Board does not have any records that "[reveal] the process by which wreckage was recovered from the aircraft used during the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001." As you probably know, the Safety Board assisted the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) as the FBI investigated the circumstances under which the four aircraft crashed, pursuant to Congress's direction requiring the Board to relinquish its investigative priority to the FBI when the Safety Board and FBI determine that an intentional criminal act likely caused the accident at issue. 49 U.s.c. § 113 1(a)(2)(B). As such, the Safety Board did not ensure that the owners of the aircraft completed wreckage release forms, as the Board typically does in investigations in which the Board has priority. See 49 C.F.R. § 831. 12(b). Overall, the Safety Board does not have any records that describe the "process" by which the Board or the FBI identified wreckage.
To the extent that you seek to inform the Safety Board of an error in its reports under Section 515 of the Treasury and General Government Appropriations Act for Fiscal Year 2001 (Public Law 106-554; H.R. 5658), and pursuant to government-wide guidelines issued by the Office of Management and Budget to assure the quality of information that Federal Agencies disseminate, as described at 67 Fed. Reg. 8,452 (Feb. 22, 2002), submitting a FOIA appeal is not the appropriate mechanism. As described in the Board's Information Quality Guidelines, which, as you know, are listed on the Board's website at http://www.ntsb.gov/info/quality.htm [1]. you must submit a request to Executive Secretariat/Information Quality, and include the following information:
1. Your name, telephone number, address and/or e-mail address;
2. Description and documentation as to how information is to be corrected, revised, or reviewed;
3. Explanation of how person submitting the request is affected by any information error;
4. Explanation of how the disseminated information failed the quality standards; and
5. Any pertinent attachments.
do they really say that they have NO AN IOTA of information on
the 4 planes that crashed on 911???
============================
Payne Steward crash
Aidan Monaghan
Based on information obtained from the National Transportation Safety Board via online public inquiry requests, it seems that the NTSB may have been prevented from obtaining normal access to Flight Data Recorder part numbers and unique serial numbers required to facilitate the data readouts obtained from the FDR's recovered from American airlines flight 77 and United airlines flight 93, destroyed during the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001.
Within a June 5, 2008 response from the NTSB, it is explained why unique FDR serial numbers are required to obtain correct FDR data readout:
"The exact serial number of the unit delineates manufacturing break points. The serial number is used to identify when a recorder manufacturer switched from a certain memory configuration to another. This information is necessary to perform the correct recovery of the data."
Within a May 5, 2008 response from the NTSB, it is indicated that FDR part and serial numbers are normally obtained directly from FAA and airline aircraft records:
Because the FBI was the lead investigative agency regarding the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, FAA and airline aircraft records would have presumably been brought under the control of and made available by the FBI.
Within a June 11, 2008 reply from the NTSB, the NTSB indicates that when FDR part and serial numbers are not known, they are not contained within NTSB published reports:
"The Safety Board will include the manufacturer, the part number and the serial number of the recorder in its formal reports (if known)."
The NTSB reports regarding the FDR's recovered from AA 77 and UA 93 are virtually the only ones during the past 20 years of major U.S. aviation mishaps, within which FDR part and serial numbers were not published (the complete list is provided below) Because each essential FDR part and serial number were not published, they were presumably not made available to the NTSB.
American airlines flight 77 FDR report:
United airlines flight 93 report:
However, because each AA 77 and UA 93 FDR model and manufacturer is known and published within the AA 77 and UA 93 FDR reports, it would seem that the NTSB obtained limited access to information contained within FAA and airline aircraft records for AA 77 and UA 93. Why the NTSB was apparently unable to also obtain the FDR part and serial numbers required to generate proper FDR data readout is unknown. Presumably, if the recovered AA 77 and UA 93 FDR's did not possess the memory configurations indicated within FAA and airline aircraft records, a mismatch could become apparent to NTSB investigators.
According to the NTSB "Flight Data Recorder Handbook for Aviation Accident Investigations", FDR serial numbers are required for data readout:
"Specifically, the following information is required to facilitate data readout: ... FDR Part number and Serial Number"
FAA records that would contain the FDR part numbers serial numbers for AA 77 and UA 93 are unavailable for release by the FAA under the Freedom of Information Act:
The FAA's response to a Freedom of Information Act request for these aircraft records was described as "unlawful" by a FOIA expert with the "Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press":
“"[W]e are not in a position to release the said records at this time,” certainly isn’t an exemption any where in the Freedom of Information Act, and I can’t think of any case law that supports that answer either."
Within a reply to a 2007 FOIA federal lawsuit, the FBI indicated that it did not possess any records pertaining to the 9/11 aircraft, containing aircraft component or serial numbers:
Additional FDR information provided by the NTSB within its June 11, 2008 reply, revealing the significance of the apparently unknown part and serial numbers of the FDRs belonging to AA 77 and UA 93, required to generate FDR data readouts:
"Each recorder does have a unique serial number that is assigned by the manufacturer at the time it is made. In addition to the unique serial number there is a part number that associates the unit with a particular family of recorders. Every recorder has a dataplate affixed to the outside of the unit stating the serial number, part number, date of manufacturer, TSO certification, power requirements and weight. The part number will stay the same even though subtle changes may be made during the manufacturing lifecycle of the recorder. The manufacturer may change some components within the unit as long as the functionality and interchangeability of the unit remain the same. This is where the serial number becomes important. If a recorder with the same part number comes in we need to know what parts were used to make it and that is tracked by individual serial numbers of the recorder."
Flight data recorder information provided by the NTSB, for all major U.S. commercial passenger aircraft crashes within U.S. territory, involving major aircraft and/or loss of life, since 1988, with noted FDR serial numbers:
http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/2007/AAR0705.pdf
Chalk's Ocean Airways Flight 101, December 19, 2005, Grumman G-73, 20 Dead (Not equipped with a FDR)
http://amelia.db.erau.edu/reports/ntsb/aar/AAR07-04.pdf
Corporate Airlines Flight 5966, October 19, 2004, HP Jetstream, 13 Dead, Fairchild Model F-1000 FDR, Serial Number: 00511
http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/2006/AAR0601.pdf
Pinnacle Airlines Flight 3701, October 14, 2004, CL-600-2B19, 2 Dead, Fairchild Model F-1000 FDR, Serial Model: 01094
http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/2007/AAR0701.pdf
US Airways Express Flight 5481, January 8, 2003, Beechcraft 1900, 21 Dead, Fairchild Model F-1000 FDR, Serial Number: 01110
http://www.ntsb.gov/events/2003/AM5481/docket/255651.pdf
American Airlines Flight 587, November 12, 2001, Airbus 300, 260 Dead, Fairchild Model FA-2100 FDR, Serial Number: 1186
http://www.ntsb.gov/Events/2001/AA587/exhibits/241509.pdf
Alaska Airlines Flight 261, January 31, 2000, Boeing MD-83, 88 Dead, Sundstrand Model FDR, Serial Number: 9182
http://www.ntsb.gov/Events/2000/Aka261/docket/117973.pdf
American Airlines Flight 1420, June 1, 1999, McDonnell Douglas MD-82, 11 Dead, L3 Model FA-2100 FDR, Serial Number: 00718
http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/2001/AAR0102.pdf
COMAIR Flight 3272, January 9, 1997, Empresa Brasileira de Aeronautica, 29 Dead, Loral Fairchild Model F-1000 FDR, Serial Number: 997
http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/1998/AAR9804_body.pdf
TWA Flight 800, July 17, 1996, Boeing 747, 230 Dead, Sundstrand Model FDR, Serial Number: 10291
http://www.ntsb.gov/Publictn/2000/AAR0003.pdf
Valu Jet Flight 592, May 11, 1996, McDonnell Douglas DC-9, 110 Dead, Loral Fairchild Model F-800 FDR, Serial Number: 6132
http://www.ntsb.gov/Publictn/1997/AAR9706.pdf
Atlantic Southeast Airlines Flight 529, August 21, 1995, EMB-120RT, 8 Dead, Fairchild Digital Model F-800 FDR, Serial Number: 04856
http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/1996/AAR9606.pdf
American Eagle Flight 4184, October 31, 1994, ATR 72, 68 Dead, Loral/Fairchild Model F-800 FDR, Serial Number: 4838
http://www.ntsb.gov/Publictn/1996/aar9601.pdf
US Air Flight 427, September 8, 1994, Boeing 737-300, 133 Dead, Loral/Fairchild Data Systems Model F-1000 FDR, Serial Number: 442
http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/1999/AAR9901.pdf
US Air Flight 1016, July 2, 1994, McDonnell Douglas DC-9, 37 Dead, Fairchild S-703 FDR, Serial Number: 00880
http://amelia.db.erau.edu/reports/ntsb/aar/AAR95-03.pdf
US Air Flight 405, March 22, 1992, Fokker F-28, 27 Dead, Fairchild F-800 FDR, Serial Number: 154
http://www.airdisaster.com/reports/ntsb/AAR93-02.pdf
Atlantic Southeast Airlines Flight 2311, April 5, 1991, Embraer EMB 120, 23 Dead, (Not equipped with a FDR)
http://amelia.db.erau.edu/reports/ntsb/aar/AAR92-03.pdf
United Airlines Flight 585, March 3, 1991, Boeing 737, 25 Dead, Fairchild Model F-800 FDR, Serial Number: 4016
http://amelia.db.erau.edu/reports/ntsb/aar/AAR92-06.pdf
US Air Flight 1493, February 1, 1991, Boeing 737, 22 Dead, Sundstrand Model FWUS FDR, Serial Number: 692
http://amelia.db.erau.edu/reports/ntsb/aar/AAR91-08.pdf
United Airlines Flight 232, July 19, 1989, McDonnell Douglas DC 10, 111 Dead, Sundstrand Model 573 FDR, Serial Number: 2159
http://www.airdisaster.com/reports/ntsb/AAR90-06.pdf
Delta Air Lines Flight 1141, August 31, 1988, Boeing 727, 14 Dead, Lockheed Model 109-D, FDR, Serial Number: 654
The only other instance of undocumented FDR serial numbers following a major U.S. commercial aircraft crash within U.S. territory during this 20 year period, seems to be a little known mishap that oddly, occurred on September 11, 1991, exactly 10 years before the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks. This report also did not list a FDR manufacturer or model number, possibly because the accident was immediately determined to be the result of negligence on the part of aircraft maintenance personnel.
NTSB Major Airline Crash Reports Of Last 10 Years:
NTSB Major Airline Crash Reports Prior To Past 10 Years:
Notable Crashes Of Commercial Aircraft:
ValuJet crash
Because each AA 77 and UA 93 FDR model and manufacturer is apparently known and thus listed within the AA 77 and UA 93 FDR reports, it would seem that the NTSB obtained limited access to information contained within FAA and airline aircraft records for AA 77 and UA 93.
And yet, the required FDR part and serial numbers apparently contained within the same records that list the published FDR model and manufacturer, were apparently not provided to the NTSB or they would have published them. (based on information provided in their 6/11 response.)
Presumably, if the recovered AA 77 and UA 93 FDR's did not possess the memory configurations indicated within FAA and airline aircraft records, a FDR/FDR record mismatch could become apparent to NTSB investigators. (i.e.: In theory, the FDR's studied by the NTSB would not be those last known to have been installed aboard UA 93 and AA 77.)
Aidan Monaghan
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In working with pilots for /11 truth regarding their work-up of the FDR and animation data for AA77, I noticed that niether the FDR nor the animation showed that AA77 began a descent in its PARTIAL left turn at the end of the westbound leg. This information is available somewhere from interviews with the air traffic controller as well as being represented in the NTSB Flight Path Study in one of the attachments. Consequently, before the FDR and animation showed the discrepancies in the vicinity of the Pentagon, I was aware that the FDR and animation were inaccurate, and most likely hacked, modified, or even created from whole cloth.
Having brought both of these pieces of information forward to "pilots", I complained loudly that there needed to be some information about AA77 being the ONLY airliner that was fully lost to positive radar contact, that nobody anywhere at anytime had ever positively re-radar identified AA77, and that AA77 had begn a descent. Pilots put a radar contact "loss" disclaimer into the DVD but did not note the beginning of a descent. Consequently, most folks have been led to "presume" that the target that approached and possibly HIT? the Pentagon was AA77 because the animation shows this.
This imagery and reinforcement of a "non-established fact" was accomplished by a compliant press led by the deceitful HI PERPS and of course, by the animation shown in Pandora's Black Box. This "picture" is now well established in everybody's mind's eye and the episode exposes yet another possible great piece of work accomplished by cointelpro. Getting movements to spread lies amongst themselves is a long help tactic perfected by these thugs.
Continuing...
After being told about the above information about the FDR and animation surrounding this undisplayed "desent", "pilots" chose not to do the research while admitting that they were new to the game and started reporting their work from the 2005-06 time period instead of looking at the readily available information in the NTSB report produced years earlier. The reason stated was that there had been too much work done on the DVD already and there would be no corrections.
The result is that the work done by "pilots", although interesting, stimulative and thusly beneficial overall, has been "used" by the HI PERPS to make public the idea that the FDR and the animation IS THAT OF AA77, which is a HUGE goal of the HI PERPS'.
Now, it may well be that the FDR and animation ARE that of the real AA77, and that the primary radar target that Danielle O'Brien's supervisor "conveniently", warned her to be on the look out for just before it popped up on here radar screen???... was the actual AA77, but that fact has to be established by other means than anything to do with radar returns and this FDR-animation data released by the agencies working for the HI PERPS. At the moment, the HI PERPS establish that this "unidentified" primary radar target that O'Brien was watching is AA77 because they say that it was AA77 that hit the Pentagon and work backwards in time and location. But that evidence is simply not strong enough to work the positive identity from the "C" ring to where Obrien [and I feel other military radar facilities] "saw" the primary target.
Aidan's work adds to the strong possibility that the FDR data has been rigged, and I no longer belong to the "pilots" thing because there seems to be a glitch in their work ethics and their determination for truth seeking that discomforts me.
However, NOBODY has the entire story about 9/11, certainly not me, so the "pilots" groups' work is still helpful in the long run because we can and are separating the wheat from the chaff on a daily basis.
Please remember...
AA77 was the ONLY airliner lost to positive radar contact on 9/11, and NOBODY ever positively re-radar identified ANY target as being AA77...
AA77 started a desent in the beginning of its left turn at the end of its westbound leg...
AA77 was last seen on a southwesterly heading which is why ATC looked for crash sites to the southwest...
From what I understand there are no trackable serial numbered parts found at the Pentagon that are traceable to AA77...
And then there is Chip Burlingame..they guy who was at the Pentagon a few years earlier working on "War Games" surrounding an airliner crashing into the Pentagon...
Body parts and FDRs are transportable...
The HI PERPS are ruthless killers and will do ANYTHING to not get caught at their killing...
And, its always good to have a two TRILLION dollar slush fund to come up with such plans, and such cover-ups...
The HI PERPS "know" cointelpro because they ARE cointelpro...
Thanks Aidan...and everybody else...the beat goes on!
Robin Hordon
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The absence of unique identifying FDR serial numbers creates the possibility that the FDR's studied by the NTSB after 9/11 were not the ones last reported as installed aboard the AA 77 and UA 93.
Had the NTSB been provided access to information regarding FDR serial numbers contained within FAA/airline records, they would have been prepared to receive FDR data based on a given FDR memory configuration. However, in theory if the FDR's studied by the NTSB were different than those indicated within the FAA/airline records, a mismatch would very possibly become apparent to the NTSB investigators (mismatching memory configurations).
With this in mind, it makes one wonder even more why the NTSB were apparently not given complete access to the information contained within the records. It is evident they obtained partial access to the information within these records based on the provided FDR model and manufacturer information. The NTSB clearly states that if the serial numbers are known, they are published. Apparently they were not known and it seems that only the FBI could have provided the FAA and airline records to the NTSB. Normally, the NTSB would obtain these records directly from the FAA and the airlines.
Aidan Monaghan
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